In Christ You Are… part 3 (Saved and Reconciled)

We can have assurance in Christ because we are saved through what Christ has done and not what we do.

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  1. Steve /

    Don’t you mean “can be saved”?

    1. Pastor Dan / Post Author

      If you are “In Christ” then you are saved. 1 John 5:13 says, “I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life”. You can also look at the popular John 3:16-18 where the matter of either being “saved” or “condemned” amounts to whether or not we believe in Jesus. Belief here amounts to more than an intellectual assent as even the demons believe according to the scriptures. Belief is to not only acknowledge with the mind, but to place our confidence and trust in Him as well. I hope that helps.

  2. Steven C. Parrish /

    Nope Dan. I am pretty sure that you mean “can be saved”. The way you are framing the sentence, “If you are “In Christ” then you are saved”, this would insinuate that once a person comes to an accurate knowledge of Jehovah and Jesus, they are in line for salvation no matter what they do afterwards. According to 2 Timothy 3:5 and Matthew 7:21-23 (just to name a few), there will be many among Christians that will feel their worship is acceptable to God only to be disappointed.

    I agree with you about not just acknowledging Jesus. Many in Christendom feel all they have to do is declare Jesus in their hearts for salvation. However, the bible teaches much more is involve for salvation, namely obedience t the things Jesus taught which correspond to the bible. Consider Hebrews 5:9 and James 2:14 and 26.

    1. Pastor Dan / Post Author

      Steven,
      We are not as far apart as you think. I certainly agree that a “saving” faith is revealed through obedience or it is simply empty words. One cannot simply profess Christ, or for that matter even do some good things in his name, then live however they want. I also agree that many will be surprised on the day of judgment as Matthew 7:21-23 makes clear. However, when I speak of being “in Christ”, I am speaking of Christians who have a vital relationship with Christ that is not simply a head knowledge, but a relationship where they have received His sacrifice on the cross and now live for Him in faith and obedience. While you can see examples of those who “departed” the faith (1 Tim. 1:19), the scriptures clearly teach that if I am truly “in Christ” it is not simply a matter of I “can be saved”, but am saved. Read Ephesians 1-2 where it is evident not that I can be redeemed, but am; not that I can be forgiven, but am; etc. Also, Romans 5:1 where we are “justified through faith” and so have peace with God continuing on through v11 which will speak of if Jesus died for us while enemies, how much more shall we be saved now that we are reconciled. Romans 8:1 where we see that there is no condemnation for those who are “in Christ Jesus”. It seems to me that the matter of debate at the heart of this discussion is not whether or not in Christ I am saved (indicating that what Christ did was sufficient and that salvation is truly a matter of God’s grace and faith, Eph. 2:1-10) and or can be saved (meaning I can never truly have assurance or be at peace with God because there is something I must do to add to what Christ has done), but whether or not I can lose my salvation once I have come to Christ, which is a matter that many have debated for a long time. Regardless of where one stands on the matter of “once saved always saved” debate, the promises given to those who are currently “in Christ” are pretty clear allowing John to write in 1 John 5:13 that for true Christians who are “in Christ”, those who truly believe, which I would define as those who are walking the walk and not simply talking the talk, we can “know that [we] have eternal life”.

  3. Steve /

    I am taking my time to read your response.

  4. Steven C. Parrish /

    you still with me?

    1. Pastor Dan / Post Author

      I am still here.

  5. Steve /

    Okay. Morris for delay. Will have response shortly.

  6. Steve /

    Dan,
    When you speak about a relationship with Jesus, are you suggesting that a person can some how communicate with him via dialog? I know of a few out of billions since the creation of mankind that are looking to join (taken from the earth) him in heaven once all said and done. However, there is no indication that any in ancient times or today speak to Jesus (via prayer) or any other social activity.

    The person whom we should have a relationship with is Jehovah, the one whom Jesus called his Father and God. If my memory serves me right, it was Jesus that WAS sent by the one who love the world so much, Jehovah.

    At best it would appear that we have the teachings of the Christ as well as his leadership to guide us to salvation as part of Jehovah’s purpose. In that we follow Jesus footstep closely would be us demonstration obedience to the Christ and to Jehovah. Our prayer will not be heard if we do not respect and acknowledge Jesus role and authority in Jehovah’s purpose which includes our salvation if we want it.

    I truly recognize the value of Jesus sacrifice but not absent the one who established the process in the first place for mankind salvation, Jehovah. Jesus, to my understanding, is a key component to our salvation, not the architect of our salvation. The other major factors are our excepting Jehovah’s right to rule and his terms for salvation which include accepting Jesus as our savior through his sacrifice.

    So, please clarify this “relationship” with the Christ.

    1. Pastor Dan / Post Author

      Steve,
      Great questions. In regard to a relationship with Jesus, check out John 15 where Jesus says that he is the vine and the Father is the gardener. Throughout the passage Jesus’ emphasizes the need to “remain” in him, which is in fact to the “Father’s glory” (v8) and indicates a relationship to the son. Then he speaks to them about obeying his commands just as he obeyed the Father’s commands. Jesus was sent by the Father and our prayers are to the Father, but through the Son. Don’t miss passages such as 1 Timothy 2:5 that declare there is one mediator between God and man, Jesus Christ and Acts 4:12 which says there is salvation in no one else, speaking of Jesus. To say that Jesus’ teachings and leadership are at “best” a guide to our salvation does not line up with many scriptures: Matthew 1:21, Acts 15:11, Acts 16:31, Romans 10:9, 1 Thessalonians 5:9, 2 Timothy 2:10, 2 Timothy 3:15, and more which indicate that Jesus’ teachings and leadership are not merely a guide, but that we are saved through faith in Him. Ephesians 2:8-9 also make clear that it is on the basis of faith and not works, though scriptures teach that works will follow an authentic faith. While Jesus was indeed sent by the Father, he also said “I and the Father are one” (John 10:30). See also John 1:1: “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God” which in v14 we see the same Word becoming flesh, in reference to Jesus. In fact, Matthew 28:19 indicates we are to be “baptized in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit”. Romans 5:1 says we have peace with God through Jesus. Romans 8:1 that there is no condemnation for those who are in Jesus (also language of relationship). I do not discount our relationship to the Father, but I do see throughout the New Testament that a relationship to the Father is only made possible through Jesus, the Son. Another passage that is rich and may be beneficial for your consideration is Colossians 1:15-20 which speaks of Jesus not only as the “image” of the invisible God, but that also by Jesus all things were created. This passage as well as John 1 clearly indicate that Jesus existed with God before He came in the flesh. I hope this helps.

  7. Steve /

    “Then he speaks to them about obeying his commands just as he obeyed the Father’s commands.”

    Then, who commandments are they? It would appear that Jesus gets his authority from someone and thus has a relationship with that authoritative person. Jesus does has a relationship with his father. No issue there. Jesus prayed to his father. He relied on his father. It was his father’s will he sought to do. This is a father son relationship.

    since it was Jehovah that sent Jesus, it would stand to reason that our relationship is with the father. It is the father that requires us to put faith in him (Jesus) . jehovah is using Jesus to reconcile everything back to him. It is Jesus who Jehovah will used to restore the earth back to a paradise, destroyer Satan and the demons and wicked mankind. If Jehovah is authorizing all of this, how does Jesus save?

    1. Pastor Dan / Post Author

      First, I have never said that we are not to have a relationship with the Father. In fact, Jesus taught us to pray, “Abba, Father”. I believe it may be helpful for you to look at passages like John 1:1-18, Philippians 2:6-11, and Colossians 1:15-20 that indicate while Jesus came in the flesh, which is where we see him under the authority of the Father, He also existed as part of the Godhead for eternity. It is the Father’s will that we place our faith in Jesus (John 6:40). As Jesus walked in the flesh he clearly was submitted to the Father, but the scriptures also teach that the fullness of God dwelt in Him and that He existed as “God” (John 1:1) from the very beginning. This is the doctrine of the Trinity, one God in three persons, which flows from as early as Genesis where we see that God made us in “let US make man in OUR” image (Genesis 1:26). Note the words used are plural in the original Hebrew. Recognizing that God saves us through Jesus and that Jesus saves us through His death and resurrection are not mutually exclusive as we are clearly saved through faith in Jesus’ death on the cross for our sins. Matthew 1:21 states clearly, “And she will have a son, and you are to name him Jesus, for HE [Jesus] WILL SAVE his people from their sins.” This message is repeated throughout the New Testament. Acts 15:11 we are saved by the grace of Jesus. Acts 16:31 saved by belief in Jesus. Acts 1:15 Jesus came to SAVE sinners. The message is repeated throughout the New Testament that Jesus saves and He does so through His death and resurrection. 1 John 1:7 the blood of Jesus, “cleanses us from all sin”. 1 John 2:2: “[Jesus] Himself is the sacrifice that atones for our sins…”. I really have no problem stating that Jesus saves based on these verses and many more. If you read through the gospel of John you will discover that while Jesus “submitted” to the Father while in the flesh He also made claims as radical as John 10:30: “The Father and I [Jesus] are one”. Check out Philippians 2:6-11 where we read that “though [Jesus] was God he did not think of equality with God as something to cling to. Instead, he gave up his divine privileges…”. I believe our place of disagreement appears that you do not accept the Christian doctrine of the Holy Trinity, One God in three persons, and that Christology that follows that Jesus was “God come in the flesh”, which is also the purpose behind Jesus’ title of Emmanuel, which means “God with us” (Matthew 1:23). I hope this helps to clarify.

  8. Steve /

    I see. The Trinity. Not going to try to talk you off that cliff. You are very much committed to this man-made doctrine. I am sure you would disagree.

    I am not one to suggest I know it all but I do know the Trinity is pagan and does not reflect accurately the truth about Jehovah or one of his created heavenly sons, Jesus. I use to teach under the Trinity theology when I was part of Christiandom. There is so much a person has to ignore in order to support such a doctrine. Me coming to this realization did not occur overnight. And it had nothing to do with lack of support. There are more than enough folks advocating for this doctrine.

    Hopefully, before it is too late, you will come to see for yourself. It truely distorts the Good News of Jehovah God’s Kingdom and almost by itself assist the demons in concealing God’s name since he has forbiddened thier names to be known.

    In the end, this Trinity doctrine will cause more people to loose their lives than be saved.

    1. Pastor Dan / Post Author

      Thank you for the conversation. I find it interesting that you claim my position is “man-made” doctrine, yet I supported my position with scripture upon scripture, which I might add, you “ignored” addressing in your responses. I invite you to review all the passages that I shared with you in my responses for I would suggest that I am not the one ignoring what much of the New Testament has to say about the identity of Jesus and His relationship to the Father. May God bless you in your journey.

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